Do interviews ever deliver anything but bad news for politicians and boredom for audiences?

Regular readers will know that I have serious reservations about the way speeches have steadily given way to broadcast interviews as the main form of political communication in Britain (a selection of posts on which can be found at the bottom of this page).

So if you think that I might be dreading the thought of having to put up with the boredom, tedium and repetitive evasiveness that's awaiting us between now and the general election, you'd be dead right.

Masochists wanting to prepare themselves for the ordeal need look no further than Andrew Marr’s interview with Gordon Brown yesterday morning (see above or HERE for full transcript).

The big story was latched on to by quite a few commentators, including the BBC’s political editor Nick Robinson, who noted in his blog that:

“.. the interview was memorable … for a slip - on election timing…”

This reminded me of a question that first occurred to me after the 1987 general election, namely:

Has any broadcast interview ever generated any good news for a politician?

If you can think of an example of this happening, I’d love to hear from you.

Meanwhile, here’s a summary of the conclusions John Heritage and I reached in a paper we presented at a conference at Essex University after the 1987 election. Unfortunately I'm having to rely on fading memory, as Heritage migrated to UCLA shortly afterwards, which meant that we never got round to writing it up for publication. I do, however, clearly remember the title of the paper:

‘A SNAKES & LADDERS THEORY OF POLITICAL COMMUNICATION'

Ladders

Our general argument was that speeches work like 'ladders' that can move you up towards a winning position on the board, whereas interviews work like 'snakes' that can only move you downwards.

The advantage of speeches is that politicians (and/or their speechwriters) have total control over both what they say and how they say it. Skillful deployment of rhetoric and imagery can produce punchy lines that get noticed and selected as sound bites for evening news programmes and as headlines for the next morning’s newspapers.

An added bonus is that an audience of millions gets to see and hear the cheers, applause and enthusiasm coming from the local audience of a few hundreds or thousands.

Snakes

But being interviewed is like walking a tight rope. Success means getting to to the end of it without falling off - for which your reward is little or nothing in the way of positive news about what you actually said. Its only chance of becoming newsworthy is if you slip up, as Mr Brown did on Sunday, when he more or less revealed the date of the election. And slips hardly ever generate news that puts you in a good light.

In other words, our argument was that interviews are only capable of generating negative news for the politician.

Three notable examples of the Q-A format leading to negative stories about political leaders stood out during the 1987 general election.

1. Thatcher says she'll go on and on - and on

In an interview with Mrs Thatcher, Robin Day asked her if this, the third election in which she'd led the Conservative party, would be her last election – to which she replied “No, Mr Day. I intend to go on and on”.

Her two-part list was promptly extended to “on and on and on” both by headline writers and by Labour party leader Neil Kinnock in a speech a few days later, in which he used it as the second part of a powerful contrast:

“A leader who has let unemployment go up and up and up and up should not be allowed to go on and on and on” - a line that was singled out and replayed on most prime-time news bulletins (i.e. it took him, albeit temporarily, up a 'ladder' on the Snakes & Ladders board).

2. Kinnock says we’ll take to the mountains to fight the Russians

Meanwhile, unilateral nuclear disarmament was still at the heart of Labour’s defence policy in 1987.

When pressed on this in an interview, Neil Kinnock said that people would take to the hills and fight, thereby rendering any Soviet occupation of the UK “totally untenable” – lines that generated a huge amount of damaging publicity for him and his party (taking him down a 'snake' on the board).

3. The two Davids and Ask the Alliance Rallies

The SDP and Liberal Party fought the 1987 election as the Alliance under two leaders, David Steel (Lib) and David Owen (SDP). Until close to the end of the campaign, neither of them made any set- piece speeches at all, as they’d decided to run events called ‘Ask the Alliance’ rallies (probably because Steel was a better public speaker and Owen didn't want to be outshone by him).

The ‘rallies’ involved members of the public reading out prepared questions to the leaders, who then ad-libbed their answers. I don’t remember a single positive quotation from either of them that made the headlines. But I do remember saying that they came across like Gardeners’ Question Time on a bad day.

What little media interest they did generate mainly concentrated on the question of how well or badly the format was working, but reported little of what either of them had actually said.

Will 2010 be the first general election with no speeches, no rallies and no excitement?

Given the benefits that can come from making speeches to enthusiastic crowds (look no further than the success of Barack Obama's journey from nowhere), I remain completely baffled by the logic of our politicians’ apparent preference for doing endless interviews rather than letting us judge what they want to say and how they want to say it to audience at lively rallies.

After all, if you're going to play Snakes and Ladders, why on earth would you chose to spend all your time landing on Snakes and avoid the Ladders altogether?

The answer, I fear, is that our politicians have fallen into a bigger trap set for them by a mass media that's more obsessed with increasing their control and decreasing their costs than they are with what audiences find boring or interesting about politics and politicians. Otherwise, how could anyone get so excited about the dreary prospect of lengthy televised election 'debates' between party leaders?

But accountants at the BBC, ITV and Sky News, of course, have every reason to get excited by the hustings being transferred to television studios. The fewer reporters and camera crews they have to send to film speeches at rallies around the country, the lower their costs will be - the net result of which looks like being the most tedious and boring election on record.

Fewer snakes and more ladders, please!

If I were still active in advising a political leader, I'd be urging him to ignore the new rules set by a misguided media and to get back on the road. And I don't mean just walking around a few schools, hospitals and shopping centres. I mean holding proper rallies, making inspiring speeches, creating some excitement and building some momentum.

The media would have no choice but to cover them, and the wider public would surely find them a bit more lively than more and more interviews in which we have to wait longer and longer, on the off-chance that someone will slip up and make it interesting enough to become news.

RELATED POSTS:

Gordon Brown's interview technique: the tip of a tedious iceberg

A prime minister who openly refused to answer an interviewer’s questions

Why it's so easy for politicians not to answer interviewers' questions - and what should be done about it

Why has Gordon Brown become a regular on the Today programme?

Interview techniques, politicians and how we judge them

Politician answers a question: an exception that proves the rule

Did the media ignore Hannan because they think speeches are bad television?

‘The Lost Art of Oratory’ by a BBC executive who helped to lose it in the first place

Is the media no longer interested in what goes on in parliament?

Obama’s rhetoric renews UK media interest in the ‘lost art’ of oratory



New year reviews: 8 reasons for buying one of my books

For authors, there's nothing more encouraging than favorable reviews that recommend others to read something you've written. Without such unsolicited comments, you really don't have much idea of how closely you got to hitting the mark you were aiming for.

An unexpected and very welcome boost to my morale for the new year arrived the other day in the form of an email from LinkedIn pointing me to an Amazon reading list I hadn't come across before - that features reviews of my book Lend Me Your Ears.

Reproducing a selection of them here is hardly the most modest way to start another year of blogging.

But my defence goes back to one of my reasons for starting the blog in the first place, which was that I thought it might help to sell a few books. More than 400 posts later, this is the first and only and only one (i.e. less than 0.25% of the total) in which my subtle marketing strategy has ventured so explicitly 'above the line'.

The comment that gave me most pause for thought was the eighth one, as it reminded me of something that worried me when I originally started work on the book, namely that I might be writing myself out of my day job. But it was only a short pause that lasted long enough for me to realise that a significant proportion of the paid work I do these days is commissioned by people who've already read the book - and liked it well enough to pay considerably more than the disturbingly low price of £7.11 on the Amazon (UK) website.

  1. "Fantastic book with a great framework for making memorable presentations"
  1. "Excellent resource for the public speaker, with lots of tips for making presentations more effective. Should be required reading for anyone planning to make a public presentation."
  1. "I found this book a very easy book to read and rather than being yet another tools & technique book, without a foundation, this one is quite special. The first part of the book investigates the concept of language and the various situations in which we 'talk'. It really gave me an insight into why we do some of the things we do when it comes to communicating through voice. Having built up this clear understanding it then provides some very useful techniques and insights into writing key note speeches, etc. A definite read for anyone interested in improving their presentation or public speaking skills."
  1. "Professor Atkinson's book is a must read for new presenters and those who think they've got it all. Strong on attitude, structure and projection. The practical ideas build confidence, challenge complacency and reinforce competence."
  1. "Read this if you want to hone your skills on succesful persuasion and general public speaking. Tons of useful tips that will make you an instant hit with your audiences."
  1. "Max Atkinson has helped me develop with regards to communicating in a one to many setting. I believe this book will be valuable for most people wanting to improve their skills in front of an audience."
  1. "A very well constructed book with each chapter covering different aspects and a useful summary/exercise section after each chapter. The author uses real world examples to illustrate his points which makes this even more relevant. I've not had the bottle to stand up and present yet but it's enabled me to produce better communications packs and have great conversations with my manager about the style and content of his presentations. It's useful to put yourself on the receiving end of presentations rather than see it as the speaker all the time."
  1. "Save your money and don't do a presentation course. This gives you all you need to know..."

HAPPY NEW YEAR (in different languages)

In a recent post, I suggested that Latin-based languages are inherently more longwinded than Nordic-Germanic languages, and that this may have a bearing on differences in the way we use gestures in conversation (HERE).

A comparison of the words used for saying "Happy Christmas" in different languages showed that Latin-based languages took an average of 0.75 more syllables to communicate the same greeting (HERE).

When it comes to wishing someone "Happy New Year", Latin languages have a more decisive lead in the syllable stakes, with an average of twice as many as in English, Danish, Swedish and German:

LANGUAGE

WORDS

SYLLABLES

English

Happy New Year

4

Danish

Godt Nytaar

3

Swedish

Gott nytt år

3

German

Prosit Neujahr

4

Average:

3.00

French

Bonne Année

3

Portuguese

Feliz Ano Novo

6

Italian

Felice Anno Nuovo

8

Spanish

Feliz Ano Nuevo

7

Average:

6.00

Video clips of the year

Looking at other blogs has reminded me that it's the time of year for posting lists of the top 10 this or that, favorite posts of the year, etc.

As an avid student of video, who's managed to inflict an average of 10 clips a month on the blogoshere during 2009, I've picked out twelve that might amuse anyone wondering what to do between now and the arrival of 2010.

Top of the list for me the June entry - because the brevity and straightness of Mr Clarke's one word answer to the question makes it stand out as unique in my collection of interviews with British politicians - and is, alas, quite unlike anything we'll be hearing in the forthcoming general election.

Putin's putrid prose

With the publication of a Russian translation of my book Lend Me Your Ears scheduled for early next year, I'm grateful to my brother for some encouraging news from a friend of his, a native speaker of the language who's been resident in the UK for a number of years.

She thinks there should be a 'healthy demand' for it in Russia, not least because of the unsophisticated language used by the likes of Mr Putin. If that's the good news, there's also some bad news that highlights just how little we know about Russian politics in the post-Soviet era.

According to her, "Russians are still desperate to put behind them politicians like Brezhnev, who could hardly put two words together, and Yeltsin who was a laughing stock."

Apparently there's a big difference between Putin and Medvedev: "The latter makes speeches in a Western style, complete with jokes, and is extremely smooth compared with Putin who, as an unreformed KGB man, speaks extremely crudely."

You can see a specimen of just how crude he can be in the following reply to a question from a French journalist.

He's also been known to make jokes about rape and, if you want to get really depressed about the prospect of his coming back as Russian president once he becomes elegible again, have a look at this:



P.S. Two years later
I've just noticed that the original YouTube video had been removed. Luckily, there are plenty of others of the same thing.

Happy Christmas to all my readers - regardless of language & gestures!

I was just going to wish you all a Happy Christmas, until I saw that Marion Chapsal had made a comment on the previous post about the use of gestures and the number of syllables per-sentence in different languages - in which she rightly pointed out that there are the same number of syllables in the French and English versions of 'Happy Christmas'.

So I thought I'd check out how many syllables/beats are needed to get the same message across in a sample of Nordic-Germanic languages on the one hand and Latin-based languages on the other.

Given what I was suggesting in the previous post, the survey got off to a bad start with the discovery that the German version of Happy Christmas has 5 syllables.

But, as you'll see from the score card below, the brevity of Swedish, with only 2 syllables, came to the rescue and brought the Nordic-Germanic average down to 3.75 - comfortably fewer than the average of 4.5 syllables in Latin languages.

As for whether or not Latin speakers have to accompany such cheeriness with distinctive gestures must await further empirical research.

Meanwhile, a very happy Christmas to you all, whatever your native tongue - and regardless of how many syllables you need to say it!

LANGUAGE


English

Danish

Swedish

German


French

Portuguese

Italian

Spanish


WORDS

Happy Christmas

Glaedelig Jul

God Jul

Frohe Weihnachte

Average:

Joyeux Nöel

Feliz Natal

Buon Natale

Feliz Navidad

Average:


Syllables

4

4

2

5

3.75

4

4

5

5

4.5

Linguistic differences and non-verbal behavior: the mysterious case of gestures

On a recent trip to Rome, I was reminded of the fact that it's commonly believed, at least by native speakers of English, that people who speak Latin-based languages seem to gesticulate more frequently and more vigorously than we do.

It wasn't that I saw lots of locals waiving their hands about, but I was struck by what a lot of writing there seemed to be on the road signs on the way into town from the airport.

Then, on entering the lift in the hotel, I was struck again by the length of the warning notice - so much so that I actually took a photograph of it (above).

The big difference between Italian and English isn't so much the number of words as the fact that the Italian version has twice as many syllables as the English translation:

IN CASO DI INCENDIO NON USARE L'ASCENSORE USARE LE SCALE (24 syllables)

IN CASE OF FIRE DO NOT USE THE LIFT USE THE STAIRS (12 syllables)

The point about syllables is that each one is a separate beat, so that the more beats there are in a sentence, the longer it will take to say it aloud.

This reminded me of some questions that originally occurred to me about thirty years ago as I was reading a notice about how to get into the lifeboats on a ferry between England and France - where two lines of English were translated into three lines of French.
  1. Are Latin languages inherently more 'long-winded' than English?
  2. If so, does this create problems for turn-taking that hadn't been noticed by research originally based on tape recordings of conversations between native speakers of English?
  3. If so, could a greater reliance on gestures be a practical solution to any such problems?
Combating the threat of an approaching bowl of potatoes
The reason why these questions occurred to me then was that I'd just returned from one of the first international conferences on conversation analysis at Boston University, where I'd taken part in a data session analysing a videotape of a dinner party at which a bowl of potatoes was being passed along the row of three diners on one side of the table.

A woman sitting opposite the man furthest away from the potatoes was telling him a story. When the potatoes reached the person next to him, she leant towards him and carried on with her tale. Then, a split second before the bowl reached the man being told the story, the speaker's hands suddenly came up from the table and she began to accompany her story with increasingly vigorous gestures.

The more the sequence was replayed, the more it looked as though her movements were precisely timed and choreographed with the movement of the bowl towards her listener. Leaning towards him came across as the first step in her bid to retain his undivided attention in the face of the growing threat of the approaching potatoes.

Her gestures, beginning as they did just before the bowl arrived in his hands, looked like an increasingly determined, if not desperate, effort to keep him listening.

So what?
If one of the things we do with gestures is to combat threats to the attentiveness of our listeners, this raises the question of whether speakers of Latin languages like Italian, Spanish and French have more reason to use them than speakers of a predominantly Germanic-Nordic language like English?

The number of beats/syllables needed to say the words in the Italian fire warning pictured above (or the lifeboat instructions on the cross-Channel ferry) points to a reason why the problem of holding attention may be greater in some languages than others - which would give speakers of those languages more of an incentive to use gestures.

Given that conversation depends on turn-taking, the longer a turn takes, the more of a challenge it is for listeners to remain attentive until the previous speaker has finished.

We know from some of the earliest work on turn-taking by the late Harvey Sacks that, if we're going to tell a story, we have to alert people to the fact in advance - so that they can prepare themselves for having to do more listening than usual.

So, if the production of sentences in language (A) requires more beats/syllables than the production of sentences in language (B), holding the attention of listeners will be inherently more of a problem for speakers of (A) than it is for speakers of (B).

And, if gestures help to hold attention, you would therefore expect speakers of language (A) to gesticulate more than speakers of language (B).

Culture, language or climate?
The standard way of explaining why Latin speakers are alleged to gesticulate more than English speakers is on the basis of ill-defined cultural generalisations along the lines that the Italians, French and Spanish are more 'emotional' and 'expressive' than people in Britain, North America and Australasia.

But there's an empirical vagueness to such claims that makes me rather more convinced by the idea that it has more to do with the way turn-taking is affected by inherent differences in the length of sentences in different languages (as measured by number of beats/syllables per sentence).

Or at least I was convinced until I mentioned the theory at another conference, where a Swedish delegate came up with a rather different, but nonetheless plausible, explanation:

"It's warm around the Mediterranean, but we native speakers of Swedish have to keep our hands in our pockets because it's too cold to waive them around all the time."